Talk:Apple

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Good articleApple has been listed as one of the Agriculture, food and drink good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
August 31, 2007Good article nomineeNot listed
January 31, 2008Featured article candidateNot promoted
March 2, 2008Good article nomineeNot listed
March 27, 2008Good article reassessmentListed
August 22, 2008Featured article candidateNot promoted
July 18, 2010Featured article candidateNot promoted
November 2, 2011Good article reassessmentKept
September 4, 2013Good article reassessmentKept
Current status: Good article

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Semi-protected edit request on 2 October 2020[edit]

Genome (as currently published)

In 2010, an Italian-led consortium announced they had sequenced the complete genome of the apple in collaboration with horticultural genomicists at Washington State University,[13] using 'Golden Delicious'.[14] It had about 57,000 genes, the highest number of any plant genome studied to date[15] and more genes than the human genome (about 30,000).[16] This new understanding of the apple genome will help scientists identify genes and gene variants that contribute to resistance to disease and drought, and other desirable characteristics. Understanding the genes behind these characteristics will help scientists perform more knowledgeable selective breeding. The genome sequence also provided proof that Malus sieversii was the wild ancestor of the domestic apple—an issue that had been long-debated in the scientific community.[13]

Genome (suggested for publication)

Apple is diploid, though triploid cultivars are not uncommon, has 17 chromosomes and an estimated genome size of approximately 650 Mb. Several whole genome sequences has been made available, the first one in 2010 was based on the diploid cultivar ‘Golden Delicious’[1]. However, this first whole genome sequence turned out to contain several errors[2] in part owing to the high degree of heterozygosity in diploid apple which, in combination with an ancient genome duplication, complicated the assembly. Recently, double- and trihaploid individuals have been sequenced, yielding whole genome sequences of higher quality[3][4]. The first whole genome assembly was estimated to contain around 57,000 genes[5], though the more recent genome sequences support more moderate estimates between 42,000 and 44,700 protein coding genes[6][7]. Among other things, the availability of whole genome sequences has provided evidence that the wild ancestor of the cultivated apple most likely is Malus sieversii. Re-sequencing of multiple accessions has support this, while also suggesting extensive introgression from Malus sieversii following domestication[8].

Comments[edit]

I propose that the above suggested text replaces the currently published text about the apple genome as above.

Note: I have entered the references in the text as being references to homepages, though I think it would be more appropriate to cite them as scientific articles. Unfortunatley I couldn't figure out how to enter them as such on the Talk page. Jonas Skytte (SLU) (talk) 10:16, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 April 2020[edit]

Genome[edit]

In 2010, an Italian-led consortium announced they had sequenced the first complete genome of the apple in collaboration with horticultural genomicists at Washington State University, using 'Golden Delicious'. The apple genome has approximately 57,000 genes, which was the highest number of any plant genome studied at the time, and more genes than the human genome which has about 25,000 genes. The modern apple has 17 chromosomes which were found to be derived from an ancestor with 9 chromosomes that experienced genome-wide duplication. The genome sequence also provided proof that Malus sieversii was the wild ancestor of the domestic apple—an issue that had been long-debated in the scientific community. In 2016 a new and much higher quality whole genome sequence (WGS) for a double-haploid derivative of the Golden Delicious variety of apple was published[9]. This new understanding of the apple genome will help scientists identify genes and gene variants that contribute to resistance to disease and drought and other desirable characteristics. Understanding the genes behind these characteristics will help scientists perform more knowledgeable selective breeding.

Since the publication of the Golden Delicious WGS, many scientific discoveries have been made about apples, including that 60% of the apple’s genome is made up of transposable elements[10], and the identification of what makes apples red. Genetic evidence has confirmed that MdMYB1, which regulates transcription of the anthocyanin biosynthesis pathway, is responsible for the red color in apples.

Apple color is important when it comes to consumer preference, and red apples are generally preferred[11]. An additional genome assembly of the Hanfu apple (HFTH1) was compared to the Golden Delicious (GDDH13) genome and showed extensive genomic variation largely due to transposable elements [12] .

The transcript levels of MdMYB1 and anthocyanin-related structural genes in the skins of Hanfu and Golden Delicious apples are significantly different. MdMYB1 has at least three types of alleles (MdMYB1-1, MdMYB1-2 and MdMYB1-3). MdMYB1-1 is a single dominant allele controlling anthocyanin synthesis in apple skin. In non-red apples, the MdMYB1-2 and MdMYB1-3 alleles show a limited expression under intense light and low-temperature. The coding region differences of these alleles do not have an impact on functionality, and scientists do not yet know the reason for the differences of expression levels in the MdMYB1 alleles. In Golden Delicious and Hanfu apples, the coding sequences of MdMYB1 were the same, but one Single nucleotide polymorphism (SNP) was found in the intron regions. Upstream of MdMYB1, 15 SNPs and five indels were identified. These indels were very different between the two types of apples. One of these indels is an LTR retrotransposon called redTE, located in the Hanfu apple genome upstream of MbMYB1. RedTE has identical flanking LTRs which means it was a more recent insertion. Many red and non-red apples were tested, and redTE was identified in all of the red apples and none of the non-red apples, meaning that redTE may be responsible for the red color of apples.

Red phenotype of apple associated with an LTR retrotransposon.

Zolli022 (talk) 21:33, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ "The genome of the domesticated apple (Malus × domestica Borkh.)". Nature genetics. 2010. doi:10.1038/ng.654. Retrieved 2020-10-05.
  2. ^ "A high-density, multi-parental SNP genetic map on apple validates a new mapping approach for outcrossing species". Nature Horticulture Research. 2016. doi:10.1038/hortres.2016.57. Retrieved 2020-10-05.
  3. ^ "High-quality de novo assembly of the apple genome and methylome dynamics of early fruit development". Nature Communications. 2017. doi:10.1038/ng.3886. Retrieved 2020-10-05.
  4. ^ "A high-quality apple genome assembly reveals the association of a retrotransposon and red fruit colour". Nature Genetics. 2019. doi:10.1038/s41467-019-09518-x. Retrieved 2020-10-05.
  5. ^ "The genome of the domesticated apple (Malus × domestica Borkh.)". Nature genetics. 2010. doi:10.1038/ng.654. Retrieved 2020-10-05.
  6. ^ "High-quality de novo assembly of the apple genome and methylome dynamics of early fruit development". Nature Communications. 2017. doi:10.1038/ng.3886. Retrieved 2020-10-05.
  7. ^ "A high-quality apple genome assembly reveals the association of a retrotransposon and red fruit colour". Nature Genetics. 2019. doi:10.1038/s41467-019-09518-x. Retrieved 2020-10-05.
  8. ^ "Genome re-sequencing reveals the history of apple and supports a two-stage model for fruit enlargement". Nature Communications. 2017. doi:10.1038/s41467-017-00336-7. Retrieved 2020-10-05.
  9. ^ "The Apple Genome and Epigenome". Retrieved 14 April 2020.
  10. ^ Daccord, N.; Celton, J.; Linsmith, G. "High-quality de novo assembly of the apple genome and methylome dynamics of early fruit development". Nature Genetics. Retrieved 14 April 2020.
  11. ^ "Red Color Development in Apple Fruit". Retrieved 14 April 2020.
  12. ^ Zhang, L.; Hu, J.; Han, X. "A high-quality apple genome assembly reveals the association of a retrotransposon and red fruit colour". Nature Communications. doi:10.1038/s41467-019-09518-x. Retrieved 14 April 2020.

Not done

But should be discussed for content. I suggest a 50% haircut: "half as much is twice as good." See WP:NOTTEXTBOOK #6-8. Zefr (talk) 21:48, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Do you have comments or edits? I'd love to improve the article. Zolli022 (talk) 02:12, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

There is worthwhile information here and it appears to be well-sourced. However, there is too much detail for a general article on the apple, and it needs to be summarised by someone with more knowledge of the subject that I have. I notice that this material has been use to create the Apple genome, article, which I think is sensible. Verbcatcher (talk) 15:09, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

I would suggest the following edit of the genome section, a bit shorter than the above suggestion while being considerably more up to date than the current version. (Though I'd rather have the references entered as scientific articles than as web pages.)

Discussion seems to have ended. Closing edit request. P,TO 19104 (talk) (contribs) 22:04, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

Genome[edit]

Apple is diploid, though triploid cultivars are not uncommon, has 17 chromosomes and an estimated genome size of approximately 650 Mb. Several whole genome sequences has been made available, the first one in 2010 was based on the diploid cultivar ‘Golden Delicious’[1]. However, this first whole genome sequence turned out to contain several errors[2] in part owing to the high degree of heterozygosity in diploid apple which, in combination with an ancient genome duplication, complicated the assembly. Recently, double- and trihaploid individuals have been sequenced, yielding whole genome sequences of higher quality[3][4]. The first whole genome assembly was estimated to contain around 57,000 genes[5], though the more recent genome sequences support more moderate estimates between 42,000 and 44,700 protein coding genes[6][7]. Among other things, the availability of whole genome sequences has provided evidence that the wild ancestor of the cultivated apple most likely is Malus sieversii. Re-sequencing of multiple accessions has support this, while also suggesting extensive introgression from Malus sieversii following domestication[8].

Jonas Skytte (SLU) (talk) 12:41, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. ~ Amkgp 💬 15:26, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

It is not clear to me what is meant by "establish a consensus"? Zolli022 made a proposal, which got the comment that it was two long. Thus, I have written a second proposal which is much shorter, more concise and more relevant to the topic, in my opinion. So what should I do? Delete the all the other text in this talk-section? I'm completly new to this, and really see the importance of contributing to the wikipedia project, but I don't understand what is required here to get this section updated? The currently published version of this section is obviously not up to date, considering the scientific insights gained over the past 10 years...— Preceding unsigned comment added by Jonas Skytte (SLU) (talkcontribs) 16:11, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. ~ Amkgp 💬 19:14, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
Reopening as no one has given any reason to object to this particular edit. – Thjarkur (talk) 09:41, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
It looks like the reopening is being discussed above at Talk:Apple#Semi-protected_edit_request_on_2_October_2020. I suggest we continue the discussion there. Toddst1 (talk) 18:22, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

GA criteria[edit]

The article has an issue with unsourced content and original research. For instance, "Otherwise, there is low content of all micronutrients (table)." has no source and seems to be derived by WP:OR from the table. (t · c) buidhe 19:06, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Buidhe - Nutritional value can be assessed only on the content of macro- and micronutrients expressed as a % of the Daily Value, values that are calculated in Wikipedia nutrition tables using the USDA Food Central database shown at the bottom of the table, so the table is actually well-sourced and displayed, and is not WP:OR. An apple provides carbohydrates and dietary fiber in good amounts, but the %DV for protein and all micronutrients is well under 10%, indicating an apple is a nutritionally poor food source. If a DV for an individual micronutrient is below 10%, the nutrient and its corresponding amount cannot be displayed on food labels in the US and Canada, indicating that the food is relatively devoid of that nutrient. Here is the FDA consumer explanation of DV. Zefr (talk) 13:12, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
Yes, but what counts as a "low" content? Compared to what? And it's far from the only unsourced content in the article. (t · c) buidhe 22:23, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
%DVs of 0-6%, shown in the nutrition table. Seems obvious this is "low content". Why not try an edit to make your point clear? Zefr (talk) 23:35, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress[edit]

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Apple (disambiguation) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 21:31, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

Threading discussions[edit]

Folks, I recently stumbled upon this page and I have to say the series of proposed edits is pretty damn confusing to follow, even for a very seasoned editor like myself.

May I suggest that @Jonas Skytte (SLU): or @Zolli022: start a new section with their proposed changes and ask for feedback. For the sake of readability, please set your proposal off from the comments using something like a {{Blockquote paragraphs}} or {{quotation}} and be explicit about what text you'd replace and/or where your text would be placed. Please WP:THREAD your comments and WP:SIGN them so we know who said what when.

Beyond that, if you haven't gotten any comments in a week or so, then make the change. If you have gotten comments (hopefully they won't be as useless as "get a consensus first"), try to engage the commenting editor in refining the proposal, but leaving the original proposal intact. I hope that helps. Toddst1 (talk) 21:09, 1 October 2020 (UTC).

Talk page refs[edit]

This section serves to separate the references proposed on this talk page from the discussion. Toddst1 (talk) 21:10, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

References

Semi-protected edit request on 3 October 2020[edit]

Apple is now also synonymous with the company apple, leading the term to essentially having a dual meaning. Misrap354 (talk) 04:59, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: The hatnote at the top of the article already links to Apple Inc. and there is also a disambiguation page at Apple (disambiguation). — Newslinger talk 08:15, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

"the mountains of Central Asia in southern Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, and northwestern China"[edit]

This text doesn't seem to be supported by the sources. The American Journal of Botany article doesn't appear to mention central Asia anywhere, and the closest the UGA source comes to this is saying The center of diversity of the genus Malus is the eastern Turkey, southwestern Russia region of Asia Minor.

That being said (I found this out after typing the above), when I "Ctrl+F"ed the above ResearchGate page for "Asia" I found this, which not only supports the content in question, it actually contains an entire sentence that we apparently lifted from it without marking it as a quotation (with the exception of the recent change of "Xinjiang, China" to "northwestern China"). Any idea how this happened?

Hijiri 88 (やや) 16:25, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

Okay, it seems the article in question was (perhaps?) published after our article included the exact wording in question, so that while they cite a number of sources immediately following this text, it seems that they took the text from Wikipedia and attributed it to various other sources that perhaps verify our content. But this doesn't change the fact that our content currently appears not to be verified by the sources attached to it. Hijiri 88 (やや) 03:43, 24 October 2020 (UTC)