Talk:Progress Party (Norway)

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Good articleProgress Party (Norway) has been listed as one of the Social sciences and society good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
April 7, 2010Good article nomineeNot listed
September 28, 2010Good article nomineeListed
Current status: Good article

Election box metadata[edit]

This article contains some sub-pages that hold metadata about this subject. This metadata is used by the Election box templates to display the color of the party and its name in Election candidate and results tables.

These links provide easy access to this meta data:

"Euroscepticism"[edit]

I suggest that the term "Euroscepticism" is removed from the ideology list in the infobox. In Norway, only a very small minority of the population supports EU membership. Actually, this is very rarely debated in Norway at all. The FrP, although it decided to oppose EU membership recently, has generally supported further integration into the EU community, including support for the EEC, the Schengen, and Acer. It only recently decided to be against EU membership, and there are multiple opinions about this within the party. Considering the fact that public opinion in Norway is very opposed to full EU membership, we should not put "eurospecticism" as an ideology into the infobox for Norwegian parties only because they don't support full membership. Sp, SV and Rødt could be regarded as eurosceptic parties in Norway. They are opposed not only to EU membership, but also to the EEC and other measures to integrate the country further into the EU. Taking a clear pro-EU stance is unheard of in Norway. Høyre strongly supports EU membership, as did the Ap until recently, but they don't advocate an aggressive pro-EU stance, as a matter of fact they are reluctant to take the debate because they might loose voters, as below 20% of the population supports this. The FrP, like the Ap and Høyre, support as much integration of Norway into the EU as possible without applying for membership. The addition of "Euroscepticism" in the infobox should be removed, as it shows a very high lack of understanding of the Norwegian political landscape. --Te og kaker (talk) 15:31, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

Got sources? // Liftarn (talk)
Euroscepticism isn't an ideology though. And since the party was neutral on the topic before, it's position on EU is hardly a defining characteristic of the party. The position is mentioned in the article, but let's not decorate the ideology listing like a christmas tree. It's the place for a few central and essential tenets that define the party. Heptor (talk) 20:50, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
Also, I agree with what @Te og kaker: wrote. Putting the "Eurosceptic" label on the Progress Party shows a poor understanding of Norwegian politics. Liftarn, what are you asking sources for? Most of what Te og Kaker wrote is just common knowledge. Are you disputing that there hasn't been much of a public debate on EU membership in Norway recently?Heptor (talk) 05:15, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

Controversial labels[edit]

In the info box under ideology, the party is currently labeled as "Anti-immigration" and "Right-wing populist". These labels are controversial[1][2][3], and they are disputed by the party itself and by others. In particular, the "anti-immigration" label is superficial and oversimplified, as the party is pro-EEC[4] (the majority of the immigrants to Norway are from the EU, and they arrive through the EEC agreement[5]). These categorization make the list long and messy, and don't seem to serve other purpose than partisan name-calling. I suggest that the list should be more focused. Heptor (talk) 12:01, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

Vif12vf, 83.92.125.109, let's move the discussion from the edit history ([6], [7], [8]) to the talk page where it belongs. Before reverting again I hope you can read and respond to the above. Heptor (talk) 08:20, 1 May 2019 (UTC)
As I have told you repeatedly, the source you don't recognise (Wolfram Nordsieck) is used for ideologies of political parties throughout Wikipedia. Check the other political parties in the Storting - apart from the Liberal Party, all of them - from Red to the Conservative Party - have Wolfram Nordsieck as a source for ideology. The same is the case for the Danish Folketing and most parties in the Swedish Riksdag, the German Bundestag and so on. Wolfram Nordsieck seems to be the most common source for ideologies of European political parties on Wikipedia. I see no reason why the Progress Party should be exempt. --Cat Elevator (talk) 14:51, 14 May 2019 (UTC)
In this case there is a disagreement between sources. This is a very common situation, and the Wikipedia policy is to maintain an impartial tone. The disagreement between the sources is described, but Wikipedia does not in general take sides in disputes. And PS, Nordsieck is probably used because his overview is considered convenient, not necessarily reliable. This is besides the point, other reliable sources did describe the progress party as populist. Nordieck however is a self-published source. His publication does not have a peer or editorial review, and it is not associated with any academic institution. Better sources are available: my previous post mentions an article from a Norwegian think tank (penned by a previous minister of education and research) and an article by a professor of sociology from a recognized institution. There are better sources for the opposite ("your") opinion as well. Heptor (talk) 19:48, 14 May 2019 (UTC)
Yes, I can find several sources that say "right-wing populist". I think very few political parties would call themselves (right-wing) populist (I've actually only seen it in an article where the former leader of the Norwegian Frp, Carl I. Hagen, calls his party populist). That would make the label controversial for virtually all right-wing populist parties - nevertheless, it is used for a lot of parties on Wikipedia. Why should the Progress Party be treated any differently?Cat Elevator (talk) 21:54, 14 May 2019 (UTC)
In case of the Progress Party, the "right-wing populist" label is disputed by other prominent, academic sources, on a variety of grounds. For those other parties you mention, if academic sources agree that they are populist, then the position of the parties themselves can be argued to be a small minority view, so it doesn't need to be given equal prominence per WP:GEVAL. Heptor (talk) 05:44, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

Hello Vif12vf, Jay942942, Cat Elevator. As mentioned in the discussion above, some sources say that the Progress Party is populist, and other sources say that it isn't (respectively, [9][10] and [11][12][13]). You seem to be arguing that Wikipedia should side with former, and state that the Progress Party is populist right in the info box(diff links: [14], [15], [16]). Could you please elaborate on why it should do that? I do have to apologize for somewhat brazen edit summaries in the past, as I had assumed that you simply were not familiar with the references that disputed the information that you were adding. Heptor (talk) 16:39, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

Jay942942, Vif12vf, Jeff6045, Heptor: The label "Right-wing populist" is controversial, but used on Wikipedia for a wide range of political parties throughout the world. I agree with Vif12vf (who wrote it in the edit history) that Heptor seems biased, and even though there is a clear consensus of 4 against 1 for labelling the party right-wing populist, I propose we take a poll on it. --Cat Elevator (talk) 19:48, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

Poll on right-wing populism[edit]

Should the Norwegian Progress Party, in accordance with numerous sources and general Wikipedia practice and consensus, be labelled right-wing populist in the ideology section? Jay942942, Vif12vf, Jeff6045, Heptor

Yes - see my elaboration in the Controversial labels discussion. --Cat Elevator (talk) 19:59, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

No Conflicting information in sources. For example:

  • An op-ed by a Norwegian professor of public policy from a reputable Norwegian university titled "Don't call the Progress Party Populist" [17]
  • An elaborate evaluation by Kristin Clemet, the leader of a major Norwegian think tank (Civita) and a former Minister of Education and Research, concluding that the Progress Party cannot be called populist [18]
  • Analysis of a book by Jan-Werner Müller, a Princeton professor of politology, who recently wrote a book titled "What is populism?", concluding that the Norwegian Progress Party is not populist.[19]
For comparison, the sources that had been so far provided supporting the "populist" label are of relatively low quality. Both [20] and [21] are articles in the foreign press by journalists with little connection to Norway and Norwegian poltics. Heptor (talk) 22:47, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

RfC[edit]

The consensus is against describing Progress Party (Norway) as right-wing populist in the infobox.

Cunard (talk) 01:19, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Should Progress Party (Norway) be described as right-wing populist in the info box? Sources seem to have conflicting opinions, per discussion above. Heptor (talk) 22:31, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

  • No - Due to conflicting reliable sources listed in the discussion above. Meatsgains(talk) 15:32, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment Simply labelling the party right-wing could be inaccurate. While the party draws from American laissez-faire and Thatcherism, its positions have been complicated by its three-decade ideological accomodation of the Scandinavian welfare-state traditions. Darwin Naz (talk) 13:49, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
Valid point. One of their main goals is that the state should increase spending on the elderly care.[22] That's rather left-wing on the international scale. Heptor (talk) 21:27, 19 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment The term the "populism" is itself vague, according to several sources. For example:
  • [23]: Both “populism” and “populist” have long been considered ill-defined terms
  • [24]: Making precise theoretical determinations about populism as a phenomenon is challenging because the meaning of the term is unstable.
Heptor (talk) 20:35, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Far-right designation[edit]

I have found some sources that describe the party as far-right. I know this issue might have some multiple diputes. So I'm making this disccussion on the talk page to discuss whether the party is far-right or not. I hope many users join the talk and reveal their input about the issue. Jeff6045 00:58, 26 October 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jeff6045 (talkcontribs)

The Progress Party is deeply resented by Norwegian socialist left.[25] It has been described with all sorts of unpleasantries, some subtle and some barely printable. Heptor (talk) 04:29, 26 October 2019 (UTC)
Excuse me. My sources have no relevant with 'Socialist left'. Here are some sources that describe the party as far-right.[1][2]Jeff6045 (talk) 09:56, 26 October 2019 (UTC)
As with the above-discussed "populist" label, the labels that are mentioned here are controversial and contentious. The policy of Wikpedia is to avoid the use of such labels unless they are widely used by reliable sources to describe the subject, in which case use in-text attribution is recommended. The two articles that were brought forward do not represent the depth of the political debate on the topic. They both are articles in the foreign press written by journalists with little connection to Norway; characteristically, they only mention the Progress Party in passing. Conversely, the Progress Party itself has no stated objective of prohibiting migration, and describe their own policy merely as restrictive.[3] An article in Aftenposten by a Torstein Ulserød, a Norwegian jurist, compares the immigration policy of the Progress Party with that of the Centre Party, and finds the differences to be mostly in rhetorics.[4] Heptor (talk) 11:04, 26 October 2019 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ "Norway Police Investigate Mosque Attack as Attempted 'Act of Terrorism'". The New York Times. 11 August 2019. Yet Ms. Solberg’s attempt to send a message of unity was complicated by her leadership of a governing coalition that includes the far-right, anti-immigration Progress Party.
  2. ^ "Christians' crisis of faith threatens Norwegian government". POLITICO.eu. 31 October 2018. Inge Takle Mæstad, a Christian Democrat member of the city council in Stavanger, backs a switch to a Labor-led government, which he said would shift Norway's political axis to the center by removing the far-right Progress Party from government.
  3. ^ "Innvandring". FrP (in Norwegian Bokmål).
  4. ^ Ulserød, Torstein; Civita, jurist i. "Sp har strengere innvandringspolitikk enn Frp | Torstein Ulserød". Aftenposten (in Norwegian Bokmål).