Talk:Women in Hinduism

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Education section[edit]

@Ensquared: You added the following to Hindu Education of Women section, "However, another section of the Upanishads overrides such a desire by explaining that women could not involve in Vedic studies." You also added a 1956 book by Altekar as source at the end of the paragraph, without page numbers. Please identify the page number of the source, where this statement is, for WP:Verifiability, because I have the Altekar book and it states something very different. BTW, Altekar book was first published in 1938 (1956 edition was a reprint with some updates), it is an old source, not WP:HISTRS, and it must be cross checked with more recent sources. But for now, I wait for a page number. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 14:36, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

I will update the page numbers later today. Thank you again for your feedback. Just as a personal reference, here is the link to the book version I have been getting the information from. I will definitely incorporate your thoughts, however. For now I have deleted the initial statement you identified as problematic, but will look into the page number and update. https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=VYG4K0yYHQgC&oi=fnd&pg=PR12&dq=The+position+of+women+in+Hindu+civilization,+from+prehistoric+times+to+the+present+day&ots=HuZAlwF-jz&sig=woihOgz1Sl2O3GLt3Y_oc03aKfA#v=onepage&q=The%20position%20of%20women%20in%20Hindu%20civilization%2C%20from%20prehistoric%20times%20to%20the%20present%20day&f=false Ensquared (talk) 15:06, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
I am also working on adding a section on Hindu women clothing and dress, do you have any suggestions on where in the article that would be most useful and relevant? Ensquared (talk) 15:23, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
@Ensquared: I will wait for page numbers for the rest of the section. A dress section would be an excellent addition. You can find a good historical coverage about the diversity yet common elements of dress of women in Hindudism, across ancient, medieval and modern times, in the old but respected source GS Ghurye (1967), Indian Costumes, ISBN 978-0718922801, pages 65-100, 105-125, 150-180 respectively. A more recent source is Emma Tarlo (1996), Clothing Matters: Dress and Identity in India, University of Chicago Press, ISBN 978-0226789767, (Chapter 2 discusses dressing history among Hindu women, which is what this article should focus on; other chapters discuss the dress as identity issue in Hindu-Muslim conflict first, later anti-colonialism). Google for 'dress, women, hinduism' literature by Bernard Cohn, Christopher Bayly. That should get you started on a good foundation. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 16:18, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
Great, I will look into all of those sources. I'll probably updating in the next fews days or so. I see you also added a fine arts section which I can also contribute to. The last section I am hoping to add is a Notable Women in Hinduism section. Ensquared (talk) 21:24, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
@Ensquared: Excellent. I will leave those three sections empty, in your good hands. If you need Hindu text sources for women and fine arts, see this section. Of those listed there, the three books by Baumer, Khokar and Nijenhuis would give you a good foundation, as they are fine reviews of relevant scholarship on "arts, women and Hinduism". Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 01:52, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

Review[edit]

Great job providing diverse and competing viewpoints on women in Hinduism! This article is very informative; it highlights the complexities of gender in Hinduism through a multidimensional job. Impressive work remaining neutral and supporting different claims. The images also help capture the diversity in thought and provide a visual representation of some of the ideas you discuss. If anything, I would suggest simply going back through the article a couple more times and maybe simplifying some of the sentences to make them a little more concise and understandable for all audiences. Good job!! Efoxman42 (talk) 02:09, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Review[edit]

I think that you have done a great job on this article! You put a lot of thought into your contributions and have successfully changed some of the bad wording and headers on your page. The few recommendations I have are that you could provide more information in your education section as well as a few more sources to support your claims. If you provide additional sources, your entire article would be much more well-rounded in the sections that you have edited. Also, I would recommend that you add more description to smaller linked topics throughout your additions to improve readability. If you could give brief explanations into the topics that you cover throughout the sections you have edited, it would allow the reader to continue on with your writing more fluidly, without having to constantly stop to look up a link. However, the links that you have provided are very helpful. Great job on these edits! Annkat22 (talk) 04:53, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

polyandry in hinduism[edit]

I have added information which tells that Hindu women can marry up to ten husbands. Sourcing is clear and practice is supported by Hindu texts. Thank youSmatrah (talk) 11:15, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

So you are making up conclusion after reading a website that has provided some translation of text? That's WP:OR. You need such interpretation to be supported by a reliable source. Also stop repeating what has been already noted on Women in Hinduism#The Epics. Capitals00 (talk) 14:49, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

capital! please review it is not just translation. text along with sources is below. it is a well known published source.

Draupadi with her five husbands - the Pandavas. The central figure is Yudhishthira; the two to his left are Bhima and Arjuna . Nakula and Sahadeva, the twins, are to his right. Their wife, at far right, is Draupadi. Deogarh, Dasavatar temple.

There is at least one reference to polyandry in the ancient Hindu epic Mahabharata. Draupadi married the five Pandava brothers, as this is what she chose in a previous life. This ancient text is accepting this as her way of life.[1] However, in the same epic, when questioned by Kunti to give an example of polyandry, Yudhishthira cites Gautam-clan Jatila (married to seven Saptarishis) and Hiranyaksha's sister Pracheti (married to ten brothers), thereby implying a more open attitude toward polyandry in Vedic society.[2]ot

and hence your claim of WP:OR is baseless and false — Preceding unsigned comment added by Smatrah (talkcontribs)

You are still writing your own interpretation of the translations in place of backing it with a reliable source. Read WP:OR very carefully. Capitals00 (talk) 04:40, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Altekar, Anant Sadashiv (1959). The position of women in Hindu civilization, from prehistoric times to the present day. Motilal Banarsidass Publ. p. 112. ISBN 978-81-208-0324-4. Retrieved October 14, 2010.
  2. ^ http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/m01199.htm

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion[edit]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 01:25, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

Article in POV shambles[edit]

This article has certainly been tainted by a lot of POV. While the first line may say there is conflict on position of women in Hindu texts, most of the article omits any reference to something that might be deemed negative. Many times it diverted to containing contradictory or unsourced text.

Now earlier [1] the article claimed Sati did not exist until the 2nd millennium CE. Despite sources like Brick David's "The Dharmasastric Debate on Widow Burning" p. 205 and Anand A. Yang's "Women and Social Reform in Modern India: A Reader" (pages 20-21) mentioning its existence in first millenium CE. ALso it earlier used Narada Smriti to claim Hindu scriptures do not prescribe punishment for adultery.

Brick David also mentions sati as sahgamana, where a wife sacrifices herself on pyre: "It is, therefore, fairly certainly that sahagamana was a Brahmanical custom current in at least parts of Kashmir during second half of first millennium CE."

Anand A. Yang describes it started becoming popular later in 1st millennium: "Increasingly, however, in the first millennium AD, for instance, in the popular texts of later Hinduism, the Puranas, sati is mentioned as an option for widows."

We should also add to this the fact that earliest evidences of Sati are far older than second millennium, dating as far as 5th century in Nepal and 6th century in India.[1] Widow-burning is documented by Megasthenes too.[2]

The article also unncessarily included theories about Sati. Most of all it only included one in detail, the Muslim invasions to suggest this practice only took root during the period of conquests. "The earliest Islamic invasions of South Asia have been recorded from early 8th century CE, such as the raids of Muhammad bin Qasim, and major wars of Islamic expansion after the 10th century.[101] This chronology has led to the theory that the increase in sati practice in India may be related to the centuries of Islamic invasion and its expansion in South Asia.[102]"

I did not find any mention of sati or dowry in Volume 100 of "Encyclopaedia Indica: India, Pakistan, Bangladesh". But the text was copied from an earlier version of the article Sati (practice), [2] and the book is only available for a snippet view, being very expensive, I doubt anyone actually read it. Andre Wink never mentions Sati in "Early Medieval India and the Expansion of Islam: 7th-11th Centuries". No other theory that may say another thing was mentioned, this clearly shows this was a POV-infected section.

Further this article under the part about "Adultery" claimed that Hindu texts contain no punishment for adultery. Contrary to this I know that many of them do, including Narada Smriti itself as said so by Upinder Singh . This is the same scripture used here earlier to claim

Another book "Irreverence and the Sacred: Critical Studies in the History of Religions" Hugh Urban & Greg Johnson mentions far worse punishments existent in Arthashastra and some Dhamsastras, inluding capital punishment.

I've gone on to remove all of this false POV and added what reliable academics say in their place. There is far more to be done however. 125.62.104.135 (talk) 14:31, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

  1. ^ Michaels, Axel (2004). Hinduism: Past and Present. Princeton University Press. p. 149. ISBN 978-0691089539.
  2. ^ John Stratton Hawley (1994). Sati, the Blessing and the Curse. p. 166.