Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ethnic groups

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to navigation Jump to search
WikiProject Ethnic groups (Rated NA-class)
WikiProject iconThis page is within the scope of WikiProject Ethnic groups, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles relating to ethnic groups, nationalities, and other cultural identities on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
 NA  This page does not require a rating on the project's quality scale.
 

Proposal for the restoration of all the galleries of personalities to the infoboxes of articles about ethnic groups[edit]

Should montages of notable people be restored from ethnic group article infoboxes? Johansweden27 (talk) 08:09, 19 April 2019 (UTC) because in my view it should never been removed the ethnic group articles was much better then Johansweden27 (talk) 08:09, 19 April 2019 (UTC)
The proposing editor had made changes to the introductory question section in parallell with their new comment and !vote below. I have restored it to the version as it was when the first answer (mine) was added. Johansweden27: Please do not make any more edits to the introductory section. --T*U (talk) 10:58, 19 April 2019 (UTC)

  • Strong oppose: This was discussed by a large number of editors in two RfC's back in 2015/2016, see RfC 1 and RfC 2. No new arguments have been raised. --T*U (talk) 08:37, 19 April 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose because beyond the assertion that "the ethnic group articles was much better then", no argument for a change in approach has been made. Cordless Larry (talk) 08:56, 19 April 2019 (UTC)
  • Support (adding argument) while there may be some articles that have drama because of the galleries, there are numerous articles that don't have any drama connected to this. The galleries benefit the readers, especially younger/non-native English speakers who require something visual. also The images have encyclopedic value in and of themselves. They give a good visual representation of the groups in question. If you had no idea of what Tustis or Ryukyuans looked like, wouldn't it be nice to have this visual representation I've always found these galleries informative, especially those in ethnic groups I am not familiar with. Oftentimes I have clicked on one of the personalities depicted out of curiosity and learned about them, something I could not and would not have done without the galleries. I thus think these galleries are useful to our readers. While it's true that portraits of notable personalities can simply be added to the body text, there usually isn't room for more than a handful of portraits at best. I also do not find the main argument in favor of removal, namely, that they create edit-wars, convincing. That's what talkpages, consensus and dispute resolution are for. Lastly, even if there is some sort of consensus here that these galleries should not be included, the enforcement of a consensus achieved here to be applied all across wikipedia is on dubious grounds policy-wise and will be highly problematic, causing even more strife Johansweden27 (talk) 09:27, 19 April 2019 (UTC)
  • The original RfC didn't mandate the removal of these galleries only because of conflicts, but because, "lacking objective criteria, it is original research to determine who should be featured in the gallery". Cordless Larry (talk) 09:44, 19 April 2019 (UTC)
  • Johansweden27, you write that "the enforcement of a consensus achieved here to be applied all across wikipedia is on dubious grounds policy-wise and will be highly problematic, causing even more strife". The first RfC was three years ago. Do you have any evidence of strife resulting from application of the RfC outcome in that time? Cordless Larry (talk) 11:35, 19 April 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose Two very large RFCs decided this three years ago. I'm not seeing anything here to overturn those. The argument that ""While it's true that portraits of notable personalities can simply be added to the body text, there usually isn't room for more than a handful of portraits at best" is actually funny. There is far less room for a gallery of images in an infobox than in the body. Meters (talk) 09:55, 19 April 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose: Rehash of a terrible idea the community has rejected multiple times for numerous reasons none of which are addressed here by the proponent. I have to observe a basic logic point here, regarding "while there may be some articles that have drama because of the galleries, there are numerous articles that don't have any drama connected to this." This is the same fallacious reasoning as "Smoking can't cause cancer, because my Uncle Jimbob smokes a pack a day and is still alive at 87." It's fallacious for other reasons, too, like directly inverting the cause/effect relationship. In reality, we don't have image-related drama at various articles because we changed our approach to images at such articles. It's like arguing that it shouldn't be legally required to stop buses at railroad crossings and check for oncoming trains just in case, "because" there are so few incidents of trains running into busloads of people.  — SMcCandlish ¢ 😼  00:09, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose (Invited by the bot) For the reasons above, including summary of the reasons of previous RFC's. Expanding on that, infoboxes, by their format and brevity involve more judgement calls than would normally be allowed in the body of the article under wp:ver and wp:synth. IMO, because of that, they should be limited to being on the "safe side", i.e. uncontroversial information and selection. The selection of "who should be on the very short list of the most prominent personalities of a particular ethnicity or nationality?" is the exact opposite of this.....immense amount of subjective judgment calls on who to include/exclude. That is compounded with the lack of wikipedia (especially wp:weight/ wp:npov) providing any usable way to resolve such questions.North8000 (talk) 00:25, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose, getting rid of those galleries was one of the best decisions the community ever made. Fut.Perf. 07:50, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose - per everything said in the previous discussions. --Khajidha (talk) 15:58, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose - there is no logical reason to add those galleries. Peter K Burian (talk) 22:10, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose Summoned by a bot. Doesn't seem like much has changed since the last RFC's. Comatmebro (talk) 03:59, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose we should go further and say galleries are not suitable at all for group pages.--Moxy 🍁 12:02, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

Nomination of Portal:Newar for deletion[edit]

A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Newar is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Newar until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America1000 10:15, 8 May 2019 (UTC)